WANTED: Underrated Wing Defender

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ohMEohMy!
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Imagine next season, our Clippers are in a 2nd round playoff match, Game 7, against OKC... It's crunch time and we need our best perimeter defenders to get a stop. CP3 is locking up the Westbrook (stick w/ me here), Bledsoe is fighting over screens and blowing up any pick & rolls involving Harden, and the ball is passed to Durant at the top of the key. Who is guarding him?

One of our biggest weakness this season was a lack of a true wing defender. Looking back at the Spurs series, I was majorly impressed by the perimeter defense of Kawhai Leonard and Danny Green, two underrated commodities from the "somewhat obscure & unproven" bin. With a relatively tight budget, one of the Clips' biggest needs is an underrated/potentially elite/bargain wing defender to backup Caron and cover his deficiencies.

We can't depend on already popular and elite defenders like Marion, Tony Allen, etc... but in stocks (and fantasy sports for all us nerds) it's all about "buying low." So I'd like us fellow CTB members to consider guys who are flying under the radar, relatively obscure, undervalued or under-appreciated.

Draft, free agency, or trade opportunity, it doesn't matter... w/ CP3 and Bled's emergence, we are one player away from having a formidable perimeter defense. Let's use our collective NBA knowledge to brainstorm some names.

dee
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Carlos delfino, he's an unrestricted free agent. Ersan ilyasova for our stretch 4. Jerry Sloan for coach.

Clipper_Richard
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We all know bout Shawn Marion, Tony Allen and etc but people I could see us getting to help us defend are Corey Brewer, Shane Battier, Ronnie Brewer, Carlos Delfino, Deshawn Stevenson and etc.

ohMEohMy!
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Speaking of the Bucks, what about Luc Richard Mbah a Moute?

He was injured for a lot this season and underperformed. But just as recently as last year, he was considered an emerging defensive stopper. He clearly loves to play & think about D, as exemplified by his self-written ESPN article about it: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/29207/luc-richard-mbah-a-mo utes-scouting-report He'd be a nice buy low candidate if he wasn't making already making ~$5m/yr. Confused

ohMEohMy!
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Good names...

Corey Brewer has good length at 6'9", always seems to hustle and play hard, and is making ~$3m for one more year. Denver has Gallo and Wilson Chandler coming back, so maybe they would be willing to part with their 3rd string SF? I like what he did to the Lakers in the playoffs.

Carlos Delfino had a low year, but he was also injured for a lot of it, and he and the Bucks struggle w/o Bogut. What can we expect from him going forward? Interesting article on him: http://www.bucksketball.com/2012/05/most-likely-to-gamble-for-a-steal- on-the-perimeter-carlos-delfino/

FVaz03
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Dahntay jones would be cheap.

BACON
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How about trade Butler??

HanselTop
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Courtney Lee. He is an URFA this offseason.

-GeoffClankinsDaddy-
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<3

-GeoffClankinsDaddy-
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mo for marion. lee or delfino. Ersan, Jamison, or frye. Sloan or McMillan.

JamFan
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Let's see, tall, lanky, long arms, young, potential, plays the 3, underrated.....didn't we just trade away a guy like that. That's right he is in NO. Working for chump change. AFA

clippyclip
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^ I think "underrated" is much different than "long-term project". AFA *might* get better as his career progresses, but we need someone that can contribute now.

ekker3
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Remember how much we wanted battier last year? Dude plays like an old man now. Can't defend anything.

JamFan
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Yeah, I didn't follow NO enough this year to actually know how AFA is doing. I know they started him at times. But how much progress he has made, and how many years away he is from reaching his potential? Just don't know. And your right, we already have enough young projects. We need to fill our holes with producers who are playoff ready now.

Junkyarddog
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JAROD DUDLEY!!!! Trade for him. 3 point shooter, young, good defender, only makes 4.5-5.0 mill a year.

clippyclip
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I wouldn't want Dudley. Dude talked all kinds of crap about the Clippers and thinks he's much better than he actually is. He would be terrible in the locker room, I think.

marten81
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He's prolly indeen an other young project, and he seemed a bust at season start.. but they started him lots near the end, and did really good devensively from what i saw.

lostcity88
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He's actually been playing good defense on a much bigger david west, it's his shot that's not been falling. The guy I'm glad the clips didn't get is mike miller, he's been horrendous.

what_up_clipnation83
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Corey Brewer would be a nice get for one of our trade exception

david
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Andrei Kirilenko would be a great pick-up. Dude can pretty much guard any position. Jared Dudley would be nice too, same goes with Shawn Marion & Tony Allen.

LotsoHope
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Courtney Lee RFA, Brandon Rush QO, Carlos Delfino UFA, and Landry Fields UFA are all at the top of my list for affordable starter SGs with knack for defense, in that order of preference. Corey Brewer is no longer a UFA this summer btw, might be tough getting Denver to trade him.

Off the bench, trading for Shawn Marion or Jared Dudley (plus Channing Frye) using Mo as the chip will get us another wing defender.

marten81
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kirilenko really is a good option imo, but he'd have to come cheap, as he gets injuries.. but other than that, hes a tall 3, with good def, who can play at the 4 in key moments, when we need a shooter there. (free throws) Also he became the russian champ this year and the euro league MVP... he did have an injury tho, but hes in good shape atm.

ohMEohMy!
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Anyone know of guys on the level of Danny Green? A relative "sleeper" who not many people know about, or someone who just needs a new situation/more playing time?

James Johnson from the Raptors would be a very nice get. He averaged 1.4 BPG and 1.2 SPG which proves he has good hands and athleticism. Also touted as very good on- and off- ball defender. Started for the Raps at times and only makes $1.8m. LOTS of potential here.

On the flip side, C.J. Miles is a player that Jazz fans hate right now. He's had a very poor (read: inconsistent) season, had "communication issues" w/ the coach, and the F.O. is probably very unwilling to resign as an unrestricted free agent. I always liked his game though, and I feel like he'd excel with a fresh start.

DeMarre Carroll also from the Jazz is good sleeper. He's a big hustle player on defense and on the boards. Drafted by the Grizzlies in '09 (and we know what they're all about) and has been compared to Mbah a Moute defensively. Dude is signed for one more year on the Jazz but makes less $$$ than Reggie does right now.

dee
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lee would be great, although he can't get his own shot. but he is a restricted FA and Houston will probably match.

Junkyarddog
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Kirelenko or Dudley depending on if we keep young. We need someone that can hit that corner 3. Young looked pretty good at that in the limited time he played. Keep foy and Reggie, maybe even Kmart. I think young still has a lot of potential to grow as a player, but as you can see in his interviews he is still a little immature, but he stepped up big for us in the playoffs. He wasn't afraid of the moment and without him we don't beat Memphis. I also like that he can create his own shot midrange and long range. I think CP3 can cut out nicks goofiness and turn him into a solid player for us. If we can't get Dwight or dwill. We should just keep our team together and let them grow together. We are still a very young team.

FVaz03
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The best thing we can possibly do is get Ariza. Somehow trade for him. He'll be a perfect fit

HanselTop
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Lee is a LOCKDOWN Defender. Not only that but he can create his own shot when he needs to and he can also score a quiet 15-20 points with regularity. Houston will have to choose between CLEE or Kevin Martin. They won't keep both.

dee wrote:
HanselTop wrote:
Courtney Lee. He is an URFA this offseason.

lee would be great, although he can't get his own shot. but he is a restricted FA and Houston will probably match.

LotsoHope
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^ Pretty sure Houston is looking for a way to get rid of Martin, he's been on and off the trade block this past season. I think they prefer to keep Lee but since they're shopping for a scoring franchise big, who knows... their entire roster may be expendable at this point.

Lee is most definitely my first choice but I'd be pretty darn happy with Rush or Delfino if they can be had for under $5M.

ohMEohMy!
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If we get the right bench players, we wouldn't need a good scorer in the backup SF role. Just someone who is tenacious on D who maybe gets a few points out of hustling, putbacks and the occasional shot.

PG: Can score and play D... E Bled

SG: Natural scorer/shooter at this position... Nick Young, Brandon Rush, etc.

SF: LOCKDOWN DEFENDER!... ???

Big #1: Stretch big who can score... Frye, Odom or Trey...

Big #2: Good defender/hustler... K Mart, Reggie or ???

Of course, having a stretch 4/5 is the key. But if we get it, we could have 3 out of 5 positions that could really score, yet we'd be balanced enough to play good D. Coming from the bench, I'd be happy with it.

ohMEohMy!
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I like him, but his and Mo's salaries aren't far off. Has 1 year left on his contract with a player option for 2014. How much cap space would that leave us to fill out the rest of the roster moving forward?

LotsoHope
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^ We're all on the same page here.

From everything the Clippers FO has said and where our spending power lies, this is what I see us doing to address those concerns above:

-Use the MLE to sign a player like Lee/Rush/Delfino

-Trade Mo Williams, the possibility with Phoenix looks good for both parties - Mo+Gomes for Frye+Dudley lets Phoenix offload 2 long term contracts in exchange for a starting PG and a useless SF both with expiring contracts; trading with Dallas for Marion another possibility but Phoenix is preferable trade partner as they can offer us 2 pieces

Using sign and trades (more so if we retain Billups Bird Rights), there is a possibility of getting a bigger name player than those mentioned above, but that's starting to approach fantasy talk. If we go down this route, any thoughts on a starting SG we can get using S&Ts who can defend and knock down shots?

LotsoHope
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ohMEohMy! wrote:
FVaz03 wrote:
The best thing we can possibly do is get Ariza. Somehow trade for him. He'll be a perfect fit

I like him, but his and Mo's salaries aren't far off. Has 1 year left on his contract with a player option for 2014. How much cap space would that leave us to fill out the rest of the roster moving forward?

Zero. We're currently over the cap by $8M and Trevor's making a little over $7M, so we'd still be over the cap. Team is going to use exceptions or trades if they want to get other players.

puddnhead83
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marten81 wrote:
JamFan wrote:
Yeah, I didn't follow NO enough this year to actually know how AFA is doing. I know they started him at times. But how much progress he has made, and how many years away he is from reaching his potential? Just don't know. And your right, we already have enough young projects. We need to fill our holes with producers who are playoff ready now.

He's prolly indeen an other young project, and he seemed a bust at season start.. but they started him lots near the end, and did really good devensively from what i saw.

AFA needs to stay with NO because he needs a lot of playing time to develop. On the current Clippers team his playing time will be limited and hurt his development.

lacsmoove
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Ny is an underatted defender. If he started for us I believe he would do very well with us L-T. Call me crazy, but if we add Odom and Artest (World peace) I believe that we'd be in the finals next year.

Clipperfn4lf
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I don't know if you guys remember but there use to be a solid defender on the T-wolves named Ryan Gomes. We should look into giving him a 4 mil a year contract.

-GeoffClankinsDaddy-
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Courtney Lee would be great but he's a little undersized, but he's awesome, he's been in the finals, plays d, tough, and has some offense. He would be huge but I'm sure they'll keep him instead of K-Mart.

The ariza idea is great as well cause he's younger then Marion, and has better offense. Plus he's played with cp before and is an LA native. + it would piss laker fans off, I love this idea, AFA needs PT at NOLA anyways, Mo for Ariza is a deal that could possibly happen as well as the Marion trade.

GhostShip
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C.J Miles would be perfect.

clippermitch
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GM of the year move right here.

I wouldn't mind Kirilenko either.

bullterrierclipsfan1349
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i wish we could end up with ersan ilyasova. the kid can ball. great rebounder, hustle and can average a double double off the bench. mo and gomes for dudley and frye would work for us as well. im a big ak47 fan. probably will be out of our price range unless he takes a pay cut.

clippermitch
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How about Danny Green? Great defender and excellent 3 point shooter.

bullterrierclipsfan1349
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green could be a good option but i dont think the spurs will let him go. young and talented. fits their system perfectly.

MrB
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The thing is for Olshey to find that guy that hasn't had that break out season yet. If they have had a break out season, chances are we can't afford them.

yimful
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Dudley would never even come to the clippers. I wouldn't even want him. he's known to talk trash on the Clippers for the longest time

bullterrierclipsfan1349
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^ while i agree that dudley is a big clipper S*** talker, the guy can ball. hes a good 3 point shooter. can defend. his attitude would change when he sees he can actually win a title with this squad instead of toiling in mediocrity in the post nash era.

clippermitch
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Dudley would be nice but why would Phoenix trade him to us without wanting Bledsoe (our only tradeable asset)? Also, he has 4 more years left.

Only way I would do it is if they did a DJ for Gortat and Dudley. Salaries match up.

LotsoHope
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Phoenix is actually one of the most logical trade partners. Mo's opt-in makes him an expiring contract and he's a legit starting PG that they can use with Nash leaving. Both Frye and Dudley are long term contracts, Frye with 2 yrs plus ETO and Dudley with 3 yrs plus PO. If Phoenix is serious about rebuilding and these are not the guys they want as part of their new core, makes perfect sense for them to part ways. Mo and possibly Gomes as expiring contracts would be very appealing to them as part of their rebuilding effort, that's $12.5M off their books after next season and right before the new CBA tax laws go into hard effect, so they can spend that money more wisely in free agency.

They would not want DJ for Gortat. DJ has 3 more years and almost $36M remaining, and is not as talented as Gortat. Gortat is getting paid $3M less than DJ and only has 2 years left. I would imagine out of their entire roster, keeping Gortat is probably the no-brainer.

Mistwell
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Lakers player Matt Barnes is a free agent this year, isn't he? He's a pretty scrappy defender, has a solid PER rating. He averaged 8.8 points, 7.8 rebounds, and 3.2 assists over 26.8 minutes in the 13 April games he played before getting a couple minor injuries that held him way back in the playoffs. Might be a nice piece.

clippermitch
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I just don't see Phoenix wanting Mo when they still own the rights to Aaron Brooks.

clippermitch
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Matt Barnes is better than Gomes and if wants to take the vet minumum, why not.

lostcity88
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clippermitch wrote:
LotsoHope wrote:
Phoenix is actually one of the most logical trade partners. Mo's opt-in makes him an expiring contract and he's a legit starting PG that they can use with Nash leaving. Both Frye and Dudley are long term contracts, Frye with 2 yrs plus ETO and Dudley with 3 yrs plus PO. If Phoenix is serious about rebuilding and these are not the guys they want as part of their new core, makes perfect sense for them to part ways. Mo and possibly Gomes as expiring contracts would be very appealing to them as part of their rebuilding effort, that's $12.5M off their books after next season and right before the new CBA tax laws go into hard effect, so they can spend that money more wisely in free agency.

They would not want DJ for Gortat. DJ has 3 more years and almost $36M remaining, and is not as talented as Gortat. Gortat is getting paid $3M less than DJ and only has 2 years left. I would imagine out of their entire roster, keeping Gortat is probably the no-brainer.

I just don't see Phoenix wanting Mo when they still own the rights to Aaron Brooks.

Exactly why would phoenix give you two of their starters for mo when they can get aaron brooks. Phoenix is not even in rebuilding mode yet they said they want to try and improve the roster in order to convince nash to stay, they have cap space.

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