ESPN Dallas: Sizing Up The Competition

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no1wammy
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Instead of just copy-pasting the links as I've done in the past, I decided to copy-paste the entire article here. The address will be provided below to identify the source host. Insider articles, however, will only have the address and its regular instructions. Article written by Jeff Caplan Source: espn [dot] go [dot] com [slash] blog [slash] dallas [slash] mavericks [slash] post [slash] _ [slash] id [slash] 4691552 [slash] sizing-up-the-competition-l-a-clippers No. 3 Los Angeles Clippers There is not a more beleaguered coach in the league than Vinny Del Negro. During a particularly trying spell last season in which the Clippers went 7-12 bridging February....

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PleaseSellDTS
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Appears to be an honest asssessment of both teams. Unusual to read something other than a "homer" perspective from a Dallas sports source. So when can Blake get into Olajuwon school and become indefensible?????

CP3Best
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Man, Dallas will be good this season!

PleaseSellDTS
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^Not sure. After making a run at the big FA's they had to settle for Mayo, Kaman, Brand, Collison etc. That's not a bad group, but not a top tier playoff team either. They were looking to acquire superstar talent to support their aging superstar, like the Lakers did. Instead, they have just an aging superstar with ok talent around him. I see them as a 45 win team, but if anyone can coax extra wins out of them, it will be Carlisle.

CP3Best
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Yeah if they can get to 50 wins they are better than expected!

CP3Best
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Oh wait I forgot they parted out with Jason Terry and got Mayo who chokes in crunch time! Forget them!

clippersfan85
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Seems like an honest assessment of our team. If we finish with the 3 or 4 seed its a real possibility we will get the Mavs in the first round if they are the 5 or 6 seed. I really don't see Dallas surpassing the 5th seed this year with their current roster. Then there is always the possibility Brand and Kaman find the fountain of youth and play for them like the did in the Sam Cassell years here.

I would guess Dallas is a 40-45 win team this season. I think the Clippers will be 45-50.

tense2
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If everything goes right (no major injuries) I expect the Clippers to improve to a 55+- win season and get pass the 2nd round.

PleaseSellDTS
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I can't remember a window closing on an NBA championship team as fast as it has on Dallas. Even if the owner had kept Chandler last year, it was a long shot for them to repeat.

Clipswhit
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Nobody expected Dirk to get so hot during that playoff run. He was unstoppable.

seanrooks
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Seems like an honest assessment of our team. If we finish with the 3 or 4 seed its a real possibility we will get the Mavs in the first round if they are the 5 or 6 seed. I really don't see Dallas surpassing the 5th seed this year with their current roster. Then there is always the possibility Brand and Kaman find the fountain of youth and play for them like the did in the Sam Cassell years here. I would guess Dallas is a 40-45 win team this season. I think the Clippers will be 45-50.
If everything goes right....

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CP3Best
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No clipper starters are as old or as injury prone as the ones from the lakers. D12 bad back, steve nash is almost 40.

pageC4
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i am amazed how people keep dismissing the lakers because of a perceived back problem for dwight howard. this is the first year in his career that he has ever gotten injured people need to stop that wishful thinking. by that logic the clippers will not have a healthy lineup because blake griffin had knee surgery

seanrooks
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No clipper starters are as old or as injury prone as the ones from the lakers. D12 bad back, steve nash is almost 40.
Hmmm...not as old or injury prone? Let's look at the lineups: Clippers: Paul- 27 years old. Has had major knee surgery. Had thumb surgery this summer. Billups- 35. Coming off an Achilles' injury, only one of the most serious injuries there is. Butler- 32. Had knee surgery a year and a half ago that has slowed him down considerably. Griffin- 23. Already 2 knee surgeries in his career. Jordan- 24. Only one who has a clean bill of health. Not to mention we have....

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CP3Best
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That looks a little biased to me! Paul played almost every game last year, so find something else, and Blake hasn't slowed down in the 2 years that he's played every game since he got injured , had athroscopic surgery, if you know what that is you'll get to know that it is very MINOR, which is less than I can say for D12. Butler also played a lot of games last season. If you're mentioning Hill, that's stupid, because it's not like he's gonna be a main guy in our roster, so if he gets injured we'll just swing....

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lucas26
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looks like we will own the Lakers this year!! Can't wait!!!

austin009009
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Its gonna be great to watch!!

lacsmoove
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I think both teams improved in the off-season. The Clips just improved a lot more in my opinion

CP3Best
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I kinda don't understand all this hype from the D12 aquisition, you can't say that defensively Bynum was way worse. They're numbers are almost identical, and Drew had to share the spoils with the likes of Gasol. D12 is .3 blocks and 1 point better than Drew and D12 played more minutes by like 2, and Drew is better offensively because he has a tremendous post game, and can knock down fts, shooting 690 in the reg season, 760 in the 1st round and 840 in the semis! SO where is D12 better?

seanrooks
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I kinda don't understand all this hype from the D12 aquisition, you can't say that defensively Bynum was way worse. They're numbers are almost identical, and Drew had to share the spoils with the likes of Gasol. D12 is .3 blocks and 1 point better than Drew and D12 played more minutes by like 2, and Drew is better offensively because he has a tremendous post game, and can knock down fts, shooting 690 in the reg season, 760 in the 1st round and 840 in the semis! SO where is D12 better?
For one thing, Dwight brings it every night.....

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clipper*joe
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The big difference between Bynum and Howard will end up being free throws late in games. That is where I think we can either take out Howard by making him score on the line, or have the other Lakers go away from him to stop him from going to the line. We have 3 centers that have 5 fouls to give without fouling out. If teams can game plan the same, this can frustrate Howard and the Lakers. Howard has had bad games, and centers tend can get frustrated when they don't get the ball. Howard has already been frustrated....

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seanrooks
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Fair points about Howard, but despite his poor free throw shooting, he had success with his teams in Orlando, including a finals appearance. Being on a better team with Nash, Kobe and Gasol as other options, Howard will not have to touch the ball late, and while it might frustrate him, I think he'd sacrifice some touches for the good of the team. Also, the Clippers have this same problem with 2 of their starters--Jordan and Griffin. Hopefully the improve, but as of now they're on the same level as Howard.

seanrooks
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We've seen hack a Shaq employed time and time again, and it's usually not too successful. Teams tried hacking Evans, Jordan and Griffin and it never really mattered much. On a bigger scale, teams have hacked Howard and Shaq and their teams have still had a high level of success. Not to mention there is the rule about fouling in the last 2 minutes...

CP3Best
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If you're talking post season, when it matters BG shot a marvelous 80% in the semis and 70something% in the memphis series

seanrooks
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He shot 59% in the Memphis series, and the San Antonio series was only 4 games. His playoff total(for all 11 games) was 64%. So still not that good.

clipper*joe
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Fair points about Howard, but despite his poor free throw shooting, he had success with his teams in Orlando, including a finals appearance. Being on a better team with Nash, Kobe and Gasol as other options, Howard will not have to touch the ball late, and while it might frustrate him, I think he'd sacrifice some touches for the good of the team. Also, the Clippers have this same problem with 2 of their starters--Jordan and Griffin. Hopefully the improve, but as of now they're on the same level as Howard.
The Magic had one of the highest payrolls during the....

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clipper*joe
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If it wasn't successful, it wouldn't be called a hack-a-shaq. It works. Teams still do it and it worked on us in several games this past season.

seanrooks
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We've seen hack a Shaq employed time and time again, and it's usually not too successful. Teams tried hacking Evans, Jordan and Griffin and it never really mattered much. On a bigger scale, teams have hacked Howard and Shaq and their teams have still had a high level of success. Not to mention there is the rule about fouling in the last 2 minutes...
If it wasn't successful, it wouldn't be called a hack-a-shaq. It works. Teams still do it and it worked on us in several games this past season. Obviously it works occasionally. But for the most part it's not....

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CapsNClips
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^ if dwight has more fire power on offense now, than that means it's even more important to hack-a-Howard.

seanrooks
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Fair points about Howard, but despite his poor free throw shooting, he had success with his teams in Orlando, including a finals appearance. Being on a better team with Nash, Kobe and Gasol as other options, Howard will not have to touch the ball late, and while it might frustrate him, I think he'd sacrifice some touches for the good of the team. Also, the Clippers have this same problem with 2 of their starters--Jordan and Griffin. Hopefully the improve, but as of now they're on the same level as Howard.
The Magic had one of the highest payrolls during the....

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CP3Best
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You're right seanrooks, but for the record 64% for a big man is medium good at ft shooting, it's not bad!

clipper*joe
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High payroll doesn't always amount to good players. Rashard Lewis was one of the most overpaid players ever. That was insane. And yes, he had some good teams, but defensively they were terrible. Lewis and Turkoglu, as good as they were on offense, were awful defenders.(Also, on a side note, I don't think either of them in their prime were ever All Star caliber players). And that team beat the Celtics and the 60 win LeBron Cavs. So it wasn't such a terrible conference, although I agree it is weaker than the west.
Rashard Lewis and Hedu were the reason why....

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clipper*joe
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Also, all this talk about chemistry--I think it's a bit overrated. Look back at the last few teams where chemistry was questioned: First, the 2008 Celtics: Same questions--can these aging veterans make it work? Can they play together? Who gets the last shot? Etc., etc...they win the title.
The Celtics won cause of Thibs. They all bought into the defensive philosophy of Thibs. What is Mike Brown bringing to the table? Nothing but doing whatever Kobe wants him to do. 2011 Heat: Same old chemistry questions. Can LeBron and Wade play together? Who gets the last shot? Who's their team leader?....

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ClipperB23
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Look, I think that you defend the Lakers more than you defend the Clippers but I guess ever since we started winning you've been whining.

Oh, and its VERY fair to say that MOST the Laker players are on decline/old, and that is not an opinion, but a fact.

toohipcliptoslip
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The key to LAL success is Nash Nash, Nash. Not Kobe or D12. I still believe that when Bynum grows up he will be as good as Howard. Nash can turn Pau into a ~ 20PPG guy. Nash is probably the only player in the league to whom Kobe may defer. He's one of the best pure shooters in the league and can close almost as well as Kobe. At crunch time it's pick your poison. They are still better thas 90% of the rest of the NBA age or not. LAL has make signifigant additions from last yr and....

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CP3Best
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Is seanrooks mad that we gave Kaman away, and that's why he's opposing everything about the clips and kissing the lakes!

toohipcliptoslip
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http://img.spokeo.com/public/900-600/os ... _01_01.jpg

http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multime ... innati.jpg

http://www.bigovideo.com/images/5years.jpg

Thanks for tha avatar help Joe.

Oscar was the third (or maybe 2nd) best player ever. BG is accepting an award from him. Compare his stats to MJ's and remember they didn't have a 3 pt shot. Check out his rebounds. On youtube there is a clip where he rips a board away from Wilt and Jabarr.

Who blocked 26 shots in one game? D12? Hakeem?

seanrooks
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Look, I don't think the Lakers are perfect. I think they are a very scary team, just below Miami and OKC. But I also don't think there's any need to downplay the talent they have by calling them old or past their prime when in reality they are all still very good players.
Look, I think that you defend the Lakers more than you defend the Clippers but I guess ever since we started winning you've been whining. Oh, and its VERY fair to say that MOST the Laker players are on decline/old, and that is not an opinion, but a fact. Again....

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seanrooks
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And it's true that 3 of the 4 Laker stars are declining--but how much? Nash was still an awesome point guard last year. His scoring dipped, but his shooting is still elite. Still one of the most efficient scorers and shooters in the league, and can still run an offense. Pau still averaged 17.4, 10.4 and 3.7 assists last year. His career numbers are 18.7, 9.2 and 3.2. So that's a slight decline, but he's still a pretty damn good player. Kobe's percentages dropped a bit, but he still averaged 28 5 and 5. So sure, they're declining a bit,....

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CP3Best
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They swapped the 2nd best C for the best C, stats are almost identical, they improved at the point but lost major defense, and that best C is not gonna be available for a chunk of the season, we have chances to win the Pacific next season!

seanrooks
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Stats are almost identical, but stats don't tell the whole story. Howard is better. And they improved A LOT at the point guard position. What defense did they lose? Sessions/Fisher/Blake are not good defenders. The Lakers always got beat by good point guards before anyway, so I don't think they really lost anything by getting Nash.

CP3Best
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How is Howard better? especially when he'll miss 1/3 of the season?

seanrooks
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1/3 of the season? Yesterday, someone said 40 games! Then I heard just the first 3 weeks. There is no official timetable for Howard, so it's possible he'll miss 40 games and it's possible he starts the first game of the season. To me, what matters is this: will Howard be ready for the playoffs? And I don't think anyone will say he won't be. I'm not sure the Lakers would trade for him, especially after meeting with Howard and his doctors countless times before the trade, if they felt his injury would hamper him that much. So sure, let's say he misses 40 games. Nash, Kobe and Gasol is still probably enough to go 25-15 in those 40 games. Then have Howard come back for the last 42 games and make a run, and they're in great shape for the playoffs. So fine, if Howard misses 40 games, the Clippers have a chance for a better record. But I still think come playoff time, the Lakers would be better.

pageC4
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clipperBryan32 wrote:
seanrooks wrote:

Look, I don't think the Lakers are perfect. I think they are a very scary team, just below Miami and OKC. But I also don't think there's any need to downplay the talent they have by calling them old or past their prime when in reality they are all still very good players.

Look, I think that you defend the Lakers more than you defend the Clippers but I guess ever since we started winning you've been whining.

Oh, and its VERY fair to say that MOST the Laker players are on decline/old, and that is not an opinion, but a fact.

seanrooks is entitled to his opinion. he has been a loyal fan and a member here for quite some time. his allegiance should not be in question just because he thinks another team made good moves. please respect other view points

cleepers
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SeanRooks -

Whoever ends up being better, if you're expecting to read glowing testimonials of the lakers on a Clippers fan site, one has to question your sense of reality.

If you're so convinced they'll be better... call your bookie, bet the farm and be done with it because you're not going to find many like-minded people here.

At this point, predictions are nothing but projections of our emotions anyway... Hope (that the Clippers will be better) or fear (that the lakers will be better).

I'm choosing hope... because I hate everything the lakers stand for, I'm sick and tired of reading how great they're going to be - even on OUR board, and because witnessing a hodge-podge of overpaid, declining "superstars" squirm and squabble over every shortcoming and failure under a huge spotlight promises to be almost as much fun as watching our TEAM hand them their asses.

seanrooks
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Question my sense of reality? I'm not expecting "glowing testimonials" for the Lakers, but I am hearing some ridiculously unrealistic ideas thrown around here. I predicted the Lakers to win 58 games and the Clippers to win 53--both good teams, with the Lakers slightly better. Is that realistic? I'd like to think so. But the responses I get are "you're a Faker fan!" or "stop hating the Clippers!" or "Stop whining!" or "The Lakers have no bench so they suck!" or "Steve Nash is washed up so they suck but DeAndre Jordan is better than Dwight" or "Pau sucks because he is a vagina." And MY sense of reality is being questioned?

ClipperB23
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Question my sense of reality? I'm not expecting "glowing testimonials" for the Lakers, but I am hearing some ridiculously unrealistic ideas thrown around here. I predicted the Lakers to win 58 games and the Clippers to win 53--both good teams, with the Lakers slightly better. Is that realistic? I'd like to think so. But the responses I get are "you're a Faker fan!" or "stop hating the Clippers!" or "Stop whining!" or "The Lakers have no bench so they suck!" or "Steve Nash is washed up so they suck but DeAndre Jordan is better than Dwight" or "Pau sucks because....

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seanrooks
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There is a difference between supporting and rooting for your team and thinking your team is the best team. You can love your team while at the same time thinking they are flawed or not liking some things they are doing. I am not taking shots at my own team by thinking they aren't the best team. And the Lakers have proved just as much as the Clippers have, so yeah, nobody has proved anything yet. The DJ>Dwight comment was an exaggeration, to show a point, but I'm pretty sure all of the other ridiculous comments I posted were said....

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ClipperB23
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Repped High Quality Post
There is a difference between supporting and rooting for your team and thinking your team is the best team. You can love your team while at the same time thinking they are flawed or not liking some things they are doing. I am not taking shots at my own team by thinking they aren't the best team. And the Lakers have proved just as much as the Clippers have, so yeah, nobody has proved anything yet. The DJ>Dwight comment was an exaggeration, to show a point, but I'm pretty sure all of the other ridiculous comments I posted were said....

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wavyballer
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I understand that you are putting forth an objective opinion in Evaluating the Lakers roster. But just don't expect to be praised. I hang out at clipsnation mainly. It's been a little dead over there So I thought id join up over here. It would be nice to have a definite timetable for the return of DH12. What we do know is that he hasn't been cleared to run or lift. I have a clinical background & work closely neurosugeons so I kind of know What type of procedure he had to repair his herniated disc. The most likely had to bone removed from the canal where spinal cord Goes....

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