Clippers at Lakers 10/27/09 Game Thread - Opening Night! (P. 8)

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mj_shoefanatic
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gordon & kaman beasted tonight despite the loss and Smith should help us out alot with blake on the mend. 8)

ClipperSean
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EG#23 wrote:
ClipFit wrote:
pretty interesting stats here:

of the starters only Thorton (-6) and Kaman (-8) are under in +/-

all reserves except Jordan (+3) were -9 or worse

Will be honest, I put this the coach. 2nd team played really well in the first half, think Dunleavy played them to much in the 4th quarter during that run.

i agree 100% percent.... Every one wants to blame Baron yet not only did he play hurt he hesitated half the night on shots knowing he had handcuffs on. We were down by only 1 point at the end of three. Baron sat out most of the 4th quater yet it was all his fault ???

It is not all his fault but we expect baron to play at a higher "mental level". He is supposed to be our leader. He didn't seem like one today. He didn't have it in his eyes, he wasn't in control. Hopefully he get's his mind right soon.

Clippersfan86
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It was Baron and Dunleavy's fault. I was so pissed when Dunleavy spoke after the 1st quarter saying we played pretty well. When you're down 10 points and playing SO lazy and stagnant how the hell is that well!!!! I would bench Baron next game simply because Bassy played better and starting is a privaledge, not a popularity contest. The best man should start. Dunleavy's low expectations are troubling at times. Like a few of you said... Baron looked no different than last season Baron tonight.

mj_shoefanatic
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barren back to his bum self with that bum look roll

EG#23
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Not sure if dunleavy seen what i saw ??? That Baron played Kobe the hardest of anyone, banged him challanged him did not back down. Or he tried to get him in foul trouble on purpose to bring in Telfair.

Clippersfan86
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The only players who shouldn't receive a massive tongue lashing are Gordon,Kaman,Thornton,C Smith and maybe Bassy. Everyone else was terrible to watch.

Gordon10
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HEy, we lost by 7, without Griff, and with 20 less free throws!! We did pretty good and could have totally taken this game if Dun jus played the team from the end of the third, im not sure what he was thinkin Confused

ClipFit
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completely agree with EG#23. Baron struggled on offense, but really played tough D on Kobe all night. Got in his shorts and really took it too him. Butler got torched by Kobe, which is why I think he had a -17 +/-

journeyman
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Agreed. And Butler will have better shooting nights.

Clippersfan86
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I don't care if Baron has a couple good defensive plays against Kobe. He still had a ton of turnovers,bad passes, and terrible shot selection. The only positive i can take from this win is... our defense at times is electrifying. When we get Blake back especially and aren't rusty i expect us to be the top shot blocking, steals and overall defensive team in the league. We've already led the league in blocked shots a few times over the last 5 years or so.

I'm sick of settling for mediocrity. None of you guys should be pointing out how it was a close game. I mean we had 40 close games last year.. but it doesn't matter if you lose! We would of easily won had Baron played very well on offense, with his passing and scoring. Probably a 10 point win!

CLIPPER$ZONE
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fire dumbleavy!

clipperloyal11
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Thornoton's shot selection was bad. He needs to be a slasher, not a spot up shooter kind of player

clipps04
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Yeah certainly not all on Baron but he was terrible tonight. Don't let those 8 assists fool you. He always get his assist numbers (see last year). He went 1-10, that one shot being an open layup in the paint.

The team looked horrible many times during the game. But Baron has the most to prove from the roster. He's the guy making the big bucks and failed to lead this team. I don't know the extent of his injury but he played enough tonight and guys are playing through pain all the time. I guess he just doesn't have the ability to perform well when hurt....and so far when healthy either.

Clippersfan86
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Thornton is redeemed in my eyes. Take away his huge offensive rebounding numbers leading to scores and we lose by 20. So he played well IMO.

journeyman
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It was a bad game for Baron. But he's playing hurt, and it's the first game of the season against the toughest team in the league. For now, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

ClipfanSince88
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I'm frustrated because we had out chances and did not take advantage, but it really wasn't a terrible performance. As other have said, the team definitely played hard. Too many mistakes with turn overs and missed defensive rotations, which are correctable problems. Also, let not forget that this was basically Camby's first game action all season. He clearly was rusty. He'll get better.

clipperloyal11
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I can't believe the people on my fantasy team shot .083 percent from the field today. Baron contributing the most with his 1 for 10.

clipps04
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He's better than what we saw. Glad to see his 3 point range is coming along (though they didn't give him the 3 on either of his outside shots...)

Artest is a solid defender. He looked off balance tonight. When he has that nice motion he's deadly with his mid-range game.

Expect him to have a turnaround game against the Suns. Butler too.

clipper*joe
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Totally agree. It looks like he is settling for the bad shots again but then again, Butler didn't fair any better. I guess the guy that wins the job will win by default...if they keep playing like that. Confused

Clippersfan86
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I agree with Clipps... those 2 players (Butler and Al) will rebound well vs the Suns. Great players in this league do other big things when their shot is off and Al did that. When you're shot isn't falling you crash the boards or make plays... That's exactly what Al did.... I'm not sure last season he would of done that, so I'll take back my comments about him not improving much because he has mentally at least.

ClipFit
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Whoever said thorton is redeemed is very confusing right now. Thorton is a cancer on this team. 60% of the shots he took were forced and were ME FIRST ONLY SHOTS. Fortunately he didn't have to guard a quality player today otherwise his subpar defense would have also been exposed.

Icecoldclipper
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I'm pretty sure we should have brought Novak in to start the fourth to get some 3's flowing.

ClipfanSince88
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clipps04 wrote:
clipperloyal11 wrote:
Thornoton's shot selection was bad. He needs to be a slasher, not a spot up shooter kind of player

He's better than what we saw. Glad to see his 3 point range is coming along (though they didn't give him the 3 on either of his outside shots...)

Artest is a solid defender. He looked off balance tonight. When he has that nice motion he's deadly with his mid-range game.

Expect him to have a turnaround game against the Suns. Butler too.

Which is why I couldn't figure out why they were going to post-ups and iso with Thornton against Artest. I'm all for exploiting favorable match ups, but that wasn't one.

journeyman
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All things considered (Blake's absence, lopsided freethrows, tough opponent), I'm disappointed but not despondent. The turnovers killed us. Hopefully they'll bounce back tomorrow, in front of a home crowd.

NUMB3RFIFTY
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what a phone-in

CLIPPER$ZONE
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Baron step ya game up

Mike Dumbass work your small little red head

Johan Lucas 4 coach!!

Clippersfan86
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LOL I said it and stand by it. 4-11 shooting in an off game is far from terrible and far better than Baron's 1-10. Then you read the boxscore and see he had 6 offensive rebounds (9 total),3 assists, 1 steal and only 1 turnover. If you can't call that a very solid game despite shooting woes.. you don't watch much basketball dude. That's definitely a statline you can find positives in.

I love how I'm one of the only realistic guys on the forum at times, besides the few of you fellow vets. When Thornton is playing terrible I'm the bad guy for saying he's stinking it up. When he has a game like this where he does a lot of nice things on the court, people think I'm crazy!

Plus like Joe stated... did Butler do nearly as well???? UM NO.

I've went at SamMays for this before; Please don't throw the word cancer around so lightly. Al is a great teammate and I've never heard him complain. He lacks in basketball IQ but he brings it every night and deserves some respect. VERY few players in this league deserve the title cancer.

clipps04
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Al is a decent face up defender. Not great but not as bad as you make him seem. He's below average when it comes to help defense and defensive switches. He gets lost easily.

He was forcing again tonight but the whole team was at some point. His shots just weren't falling. At least he was productive other ways. Grabbed 9 baords (6 offensive) and had 3 assists. Thats a great start in both thse categories for Al. He'll rebound next game. You can hardly say Butler was solid tonight. Dude held the ball longer than Al normally does haha.

ClipfanSince88
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If I'm Dunleavy, I seriously consider starting Telfair tomorrow and playing Baron only limited minutes. The Suns have small quick guards, so not bad match ups for Bassy.

journeyman
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Would you prefer last year's opening night?

wink

Clippersfan86
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Maggette,Odom,Q Rich and D Miles all who have started at the 3 for us over the years would actually deserve the title of cancer way more than Thornton if we got technical. Thornton plays outside of the offense but I like his attitude and work ethic, which by definition would disqualify him as a cancer.

journeyman
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Bingo.

Thornton is flawed; but he's not a cancer.

NUMB3RFIFTY
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journeyman wrote:
NUMB3RFIFTY wrote:
what a phone-in

Would you prefer last year's opening night?

wink

cmon dude i'm trying to erase last year lol

i was hoping to come in tonight and set the standard for the year. This was a winnable game!!!!!

KoreanClipper
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I can only see the positive from this game. Craig Smith looks like he can get his way inside the paint, Eric Gordon can penetrate whenever he wants, Kaman is coming back nice and slowly. But Dunleavy really needs to stress shot selection. For example, Camby should not be camping at the 3 point line. Al should not force it, and same for Butler. Nonetheless, solid effort from our guys today, I can only hope for the best in the future. Go Clips.

ClipfanSince88
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journeyman wrote:
Clippersfan86 wrote:
Maggette,Odom,Q Rich and D Miles all who have started at the 3 for us over the years would actually deserve the title of cancer way more than Thornton if we got technical. Thornton plays outside of the offense but I like his attitude and work ethic, which by definition would disqualify him as a cancer.

Bingo.

Thornton is flawed; but he's not a cancer.

Agreed. There's no way both he and Butler perform at the same level tomorrow. It will be a better game.

clipper321
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Ok guys I know you want to be positive but lets be real. This team looks almost exactly the same as LAST year! Hmmm Baron starting the season with injury...CHECK. The team giving up huge runs....CHECK. Iso plays...CHECK...careless and I mean careless turnovers CHECK. I dont know how anyone can be positive about this game...even kaman with his so called monster game took way too many contested jumpshots!

It got so bad at one point we were losing the ball on and out of BOUNDS play! The fact that the defending champs played a very subpar game is even more disheartening. I could go on all night about all the mistakes this team made and its just pathetic...Im sorry I love this team but it makes me angry as hell when I hear "oh things are going to be different" from dunleavy only to be crushed by pretty much a bad game.

Why the hell is Gordon not the go to guy? I mean cmon the kid was playing very solid! No, wed rather see Thornton take terrible shots or Kaman shoot ANOTHER contested shot instead of taking it into the post which he did maybe on 2 occasions one resulting in a dunk and the other a missed shot..WIDE OPEN.

Im not going to go any further I think the fans need to just post as it really is...not saying Thornton is redeemed because hes not...he still hurts the team but occasionally gets some nice hustle rebounds

elton_sucks42
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Very few us expected to win this game. Also, baron needs to rest up if his injury is bothering him, we can't have him playing like this just because. I would rather have him miss 5-10 games then have him play all year like this.

Plus everyone seems to be griping about his performance as is. This baron davis is the different baron from what I saw in the pre season. He was afraid to penetrate. Even that one shot he made up close looked awkward, like he didn't have any hops.

Here's to a win tomorrow against the suns. The goal is still to remain .500 until we get blake back.

clipper*joe
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Clippersfan86 wrote:
ClipFit wrote:
Whoever said thorton is redeemed is very confusing right now. Thorton is a cancer on this team. 60% of the shots he took were forced and were ME FIRST ONLY SHOTS. Fortunately he didn't have to guard a quality player today otherwise his subpar defense would have also been exposed.

LOL I said it and stand by it. 4-11 shooting in an off game is far from terrible and far better than Baron's 1-10. Then you read the boxscore and see he had 6 offensive rebounds (9 total),3 assists, 1 steal and only 1 turnover. If you can't call that a very solid game despite shooting woes.. you don't watch much basketball dude. That's definitely a statline you can find positives in.

I love how I'm one of the only realistic guys on the forum at times, besides the few of you fellow vets. When Thornton is playing terrible I'm the bad guy for saying he's stinking it up. When he has a game like this where he does a lot of nice things on the court, people think I'm crazy!

Plus like Joe stated... did Butler do nearly as well???? UM NO.

I've went at SamMays for this before; Please don't throw the word cancer around so lightly. Al is a great teammate and I've never heard him complain. He lacks in basketball IQ but he brings it every night and deserves some respect. VERY few players in this league deserve the title cancer.

lol! Talk about trading places, 86. The only problem I had with Thornton was his shot selection but kudos for pointing out the other stats...didn't know that.

Clippersfan86
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Before i go to bed wanted to mention something else. Anyone else notice Kaman's nice new midrange shot? It's more consistent than I've ever seen and looks pretty for a big man shot. Also LOVED his slash to the hoop where he double clutched and dunked a monster 2h on Bynum. WOOOOO. If Kaman stays healthy and the rust wears off... I wouldn't be surprised if he's our best player all year to go with Gordon. He can easily put up 18 and 16 like he did tonight as a season average... to go along with his couple blocks.

Clippersfan86
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clipper*joe wrote:
Clippersfan86 wrote:
ClipFit wrote:
Whoever said thorton is redeemed is very confusing right now. Thorton is a cancer on this team. 60% of the shots he took were forced and were ME FIRST ONLY SHOTS. Fortunately he didn't have to guard a quality player today otherwise his subpar defense would have also been exposed.

LOL I said it and stand by it. 4-11 shooting in an off game is far from terrible and far better than Baron's 1-10. Then you read the boxscore and see he had 6 offensive rebounds (9 total),3 assists, 1 steal and only 1 turnover. If you can't call that a very solid game despite shooting woes.. you don't watch much basketball dude. That's definitely a statline you can find positives in.

I love how I'm one of the only realistic guys on the forum at times, besides the few of you fellow vets. When Thornton is playing terrible I'm the bad guy for saying he's stinking it up. When he has a game like this where he does a lot of nice things on the court, people think I'm crazy!

Plus like Joe stated... did Butler do nearly as well???? UM NO.

I've went at SamMays for this before; Please don't throw the word cancer around so lightly. Al is a great teammate and I've never heard him complain. He lacks in basketball IQ but he brings it every night and deserves some respect. VERY few players in this league deserve the title cancer.

lol! Talk about trading places, 86. The only problem I had with Thornton was his shot selection but kudos for pointing out the other stats...didn't know that.

Haha Joe... You and I have had some good battles about Thornton and Kaman in the past! Btw my name is Michael if anyone cares, or will remember. I figure after 1.5 years on this board we should know each other a little better.

clipper*joe
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journeyman wrote:
Clippersfan86 wrote:
Maggette,Odom,Q Rich and D Miles all who have started at the 3 for us over the years would actually deserve the title of cancer way more than Thornton if we got technical. Thornton plays outside of the offense but I like his attitude and work ethic, which by definition would disqualify him as a cancer.

Bingo.

Thornton is flawed; but he's not a cancer.

Yup, he is kinda like Kaman...their flaws are magnified compared to other players. They have a knack for making things look worse than your average players.

Clippersfan86
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True. Kaman it's the turnovers and softness attacking the rim and for Al it's his immediate jump shots that look downright ugly at times. Al's and Kaman's shot look noticibly better this year though ; o.

clipper*joe
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Glad to know that, Michael!

And my name is BILL

Very Happy

journeyman
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NUMB3RFIFTY wrote:
journeyman wrote:
NUMB3RFIFTY wrote:
what a phone-in

Would you prefer last year's opening night?

wink

cmon dude i'm trying to erase last year lol

i was hoping to come in tonight and set the standard for the year. This was a winnable game!!!!!

I guess that's why I feel okay right now. Despite the refs, the injuries, the expectations, the low shooting percentages and the sloppy turnovers... the game was still winnable! They had every excuse to let themselves get blown out and they fought instead.

I'm not going to preach any moral victories bull. But I can live with a loss if they at least go down swinging.

Tonight won't be Baron and Thornton's averages, or even Butler's averages. It will, however, be Gordon's averages. And if Kaman can keep even half of tonight's stats, I'll be happy.

Compared to last year's nightmare, I'm down-right optimistic.

Also, Rhino is all kinds of awesome.

Clippersfan86
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Lol i assumed your real name was Joe, Bill. Well goodnight boys. I'm not gonna go crazy by seeing this game as completely positive because we could of easily won with less sloppy play. I will say though considering all the circumstances, we did ok and i expect a nice rebound win vs the Suns. Lets hope Baron proves something next game, or I'd bench him by the second quarter for the entire game.

Derty_Bert
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It was just the first game. Even though this seems very simular to how last season started.

Izlix
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what the **** was dunleavy thinking. we get within 3 points and he takes gordon out and puts baron in, who cant shoot cuz of his foot, and now we have 2 pgs in who cant shoot outside and thornton on the floor.

and then he gives up with just under 2 min to go. no attempt for a win at all at the end. he wants to run a play that used the whole shot clock up to cut our lead to 9. cool. after that there was only a min and a half left. got it down to 7, but let L.O. hold the ball till the very end.

clipper321
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wow..I love how everyone on this board likes to see positives when this team looks like the same terrible team from last year...such a vicious cycle....if the Lakers played a good game and had pau this wouldve been just as terrible as last year...

Get real guys

Yaroslavs#1Fan
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that and why the hell did he take gordon out for so long at the end of the 1st quarter to halftime?

journeyman
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Good god, you'd bring up their missing Gasol and not even consider Griffin's absence?

The Lakers won a championship last year; were they supposed to be less motivated tonight for some reason?

Who needs to get real here?

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